Logic 2 UX is a regression from Logic 1

Hello Saleae team, I first want to say that your product is amazing and I’ve had my Logic Pro 16 since 2015. I’ve had no hardware issues with it besides using it so much that the blue LED has worn out and it can’t show purple or white anymore! :slight_smile: Logic is an invaluable tool for my embedded development workflow. I mainly use it for debugging protocols like I2C, SPI, CAN, etc.

I’ve been using Logic 1 for several years, and switched over to Logic 2 last year. After getting some time with it, I have things I like and many things I really don’t like much.

There were a lot of convenient UI features in Logic 1 that are missing in Logic 2. Most of these aren’t a big problem or dealbreaker, but all together I feel it makes using Logic 2 slower and a little more frustrating of an experience than Logic 1.

  1. The live view is nowhere near live anymore. I set up the same capture in 2.4.14 and 1.2.29 (6 digital channels, 500MS/s, no analyzers, no signals changing, 30s capture). In Logic 1, as soon as the 30s capture ends, all the data is available to view. In Logic 2, it takes 30 additional seconds before all the data can be seen. Again, this is with no analyzers and not even any edges in the signals.

For me, this is especially egregious because one of the main ways I use Logic is to start a capture, wait for the event to happen (by watching the live display), then stop the capture. I can’t do this at all in Logic 2 because after only a few seconds of capture, the live view is already behind by seconds. I of course used Logic fine before this feature was added, but now that I’ve had it it’s so useful and I’m sad that it doesn’t work nearly as well anymore.
(Edit: This doesn’t seem to happen on 250MS/s, though it didn’t happen at all on Logic 1)

  1. There is no post-processing glitch filter. This is seriously crucial, IMO! Rarely will you know what kind of noise spikes will show up in the capture, and spurious edges will wreck most analyzers. You either need to know beforehand what frequency of signals you’re expecting to see and set the glitch filter accordingly (hoping you don’t set it too high and filter signals of interest) or keep re-capturing while adjusting the filter until you get it right. For rare events you don’t have that luxury. Being able to capture, see that there’s noise, measure the noise, and set the filter accordingly is huge. I’ve seen the threads on why it’s difficult to add to Logic 2; I think it needs to be a priority.

  2. The right panel only shows one thing at a time (analyzers, measurements, timing markers). There’s so much unused vertical space, I would need literally dozens of measurements or timing markers to fill the screen. Why not show more stuff? Logic 1 had annotations, analyzers, and decoded protocols all visible at once, and if you didn’t need one, you could just minimize it.

  3. The scroll zoom is really slow now, if I’m zoomed in to a waveform and need to zoom out a bit to navigate to a different part, it just takes way too many scrolls. Logic 1 I’d say bordered on too sensitive, but I find Logic 2’s scrolling so insensitive that it’s a chore to use it. I feel like I’m better off just hitting PgDown to zoom all the way out and using drag-to-zoom to get back where I need. There’s gotta be a middle ground, or better yet, a sensitivity slider in the settings menu.

These are really minor gripes but still stuff I miss or just find kinda annoying:

  1. In Logic 1 you could select/deselect digital/analog channels by holding left-click on one and dragging the cursor. It was very quick to change channel configurations; now you have to individually click every channel.

  2. In Logic 1, I really liked placing timing markers with one key press, and being able to delete any of them with two key presses (hit 1 to place marker 1, then ESC to cancel it). Having 10 markers available with a single key press was great. Again, this is pretty minor because Ctrl+Shift+T or Ctrl+T isn’t much harder. Removing them is slow, though (see next point)

  3. When I click a timing marker, I can hit ESC to close its window, but can’t hit DEL to remove it. If I click a measurement it’s the opposite, ESC does nothing but DEL does delete it. Can’t ESC and DEL work on both?

  4. When adding an analyzer, I could hit enter in Logic 1 to save and close the window, but not in Logic 2.

  5. When I drag-to-zoom on a small blip of activity, I sometimes have to do it multiple times to zoom in enough, depending on how big my selection box is (smaller box, bigger zoom). But it would be nice if it would just zoom all the way in until the selected signal activity fills the screen.

That is a lot of complaining! Here’s what I do like a lot about Logic 2:

  1. The new timing markers are great, I love seeing the time delta and frequency right at the marker pair while placing it. Getting a quick measurement like this is mainly what I use the markers for.

  2. Placing timing markers by clicking the timeline at the top is convenient.

  3. I really like the new navigational keyboard shortcuts added. The drag-to-zoom feature and PgDown to zoom all the way out are excellent, they’ve replaced almost all my scrolling (partly by necessity, see above, but they are really good)

These aren’t complaints, but some things I’ve found in Logic 2 that I think are bugs or unintended behavior:

  1. When placing a timing marker pair, I can’t navigate the capture with the mouse (trying to drag the screen just results in placing the marker). WASD works, but if you want to use the mouse to pan right, you have to repeatedly scroll out on the left side of the screen and scroll in on the right.

  2. Alt-tabbing into Logic brings up the “Drag to zoom” cursor and text box, but it’s not in drag-to-zoom mode. Hitting alt makes it return to normal.

  3. W and S zoom about the middle of the screen rather than where the cursor is, which may be intended. To me it feels really weird. Scrolling zooms at the cursor as expected.

  4. When snapping a timing marker to a signal edge, the marker can sometimes shift 1 pixel left/right depending on the zoom level (both when the marker has been placed and not yet placed)

Overall, I think I will be sticking with Logic 1 for most captures and Logic 2 for analyzers that aren’t available in Logic 1. Honestly, the only real problems with Logic 2 that keep it from working well for me are the live view not updating in real time and no post-processing filtering. Everything else is just a UX inconvenience for me. It just feels harder to use fluidly.

I know big complaint posts like this are super negative especially because nobody comes by just to say you’re doing a great job and they love the product. I want to stress that I absolutely love my Logic and it’s an invaluable tool for me. I recommend it to every embedded engineer I know! It’s given me so much value over the years and I cherish mine. I just feel the new version of the software has regressed in some areas compared to the first. Thankfully, I can leave both versions installed and just use either as needed.


@Mario Thanks so much for all of the detailed feedback, and thanks for being a long time supporter and user of our logic analyzer! This is all really appreciated from us here.

My replies are below.

This is quite strange and unexpected behavior. I just tested your set up on my end and the recorded data is immediately viewable when the capture ends. I’ve provided an attachment of my screen recording for reference.
6-ch-30s capture.zip (4.8 MB)

I would be curious to know your PC information, such as OS and PC specs. Please also share a screen recording of the issue if possible as well. It’s interesting that you’ve noted it doesn’t occur on 250MS/s, so I’m wondering if the increased sampling rate is causing some sort of bottleneck with the newer Logic 2 software processing your data in the background on your particular PC.

You’re absolutely right about this. Sorry it’s missing. We’ve received quite a few requests to get this feature added back into our Logic 2 software. We’re tracking all requests for this below. I’ve added a comment for you that links back to this forum post so we keep track of your need for this feature. Feel free to add your vote to it as well.

You bring up a great point. Another user recently brought up this issue as well. We’re tracking this particular feature request below, and I’ve added a comment for you. Feel free to add your vote to it as well.

All the other points you bring up make sense, and I personally relate to and agree with them! I’ve sent them over to our product team to make sure we get all of your feedback points noted.

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Hi @Mario, thanks for all the feedback, it’s well taken. Also thanks @timreyes for the quick reply.

I just wanted to chime in on a few specific points to provide some extra background. We’re very aware of these issues and our ultimate goal is to make sure Logic 2 not only works better than Logic 1, but serves as a much better platform for us to build significantly more powerful features.

I just want to touch on two things:

First, the glitch filter in Logic 2 needs to be replaced. The Logic 2 glitch filter is deleting glitches from the data stream as it’s recorded, which is destroying the performance of the application. That’s why the data processing isn’t live for you. If you disable that, the Logic 2 data processing performance (especially analog) should be significantly faster than Logic 1.

The glitch filter in Logic 1 is quite complex, and we wanted to get a glitch filter into Logic 2 with a fraction of the effort. We decided to try just filtering the data in a single pass while is was recorded. The obvious down side to this is that you can’t adjust the filter after the recording is complete.
The end result was a feature that was not nearly as useful as the original. With the added performance overhead, it can easily make the Logic 2 experience much worse than Logic 1 (like in your case)

We do want to get back to this! We’re currently a team of 3 developers, and the surface area of what we’re working on is so large that we need to stay focused on areas that will grow the company, so we can expand the developer team so we can solve these issues sooner.

Second, I just wanted to mention that the “Drag to zoom” bug is super annoying and we will definitely fix that. We haven’t finalized the plans yet, but we’re planning on improving view state interactions (basically what we call any and all features that change zoom and pan of the display) over the next 3 weeks. Your feedback on this is well timed. We’ll be adjusting scroll wheel sensitivity and many more aspects of navigation.

That’s all I have time to share at the moment, but thanks again!

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Many thanks to both of you for reading and responding!

Ah, thank you @markgarrison for reminding me about the glitch filter, I completely forgot I had that enabled when I was doing that 500MS/s test in Logic 2! I had a 6ns filter on all 6 channels. If I disable the filters, the live view is instant as expected. RAM usage is also basically nil; I was wondering why it was using ~5GB of RAM to capture nothing.
I do need the filter on for now so I’ll just capture at 250MS/s, it’s enough for what I’m capturing. I just default to using the highest sample rate possible at all times (for digital signals, at least).

Just for your notes, @timreyes, I have an i5-9600K (3.7GHz) and 64GB of RAM.
Also, I don’t think you left a link to vote for the drag-to-zoom feature!

Three developers, whew. That’s a lot of stuff for just three people, especially with what I assume is an oscilloscope product being worked on in the background as well, based off polls in the forums and sneak peeks in Saleae’s software team video. :slight_smile: I wish you luck in hiring the engineers you’re looking for!

Looking forward to future updates, thanks again for making such an awesome product. I seriously use it all the time.

I also just tried the terminal view in Logic 2, that’s an excellent feature! I can tell I’ll be using that a lot in the future. One last feature request to add to the list - it would be really nice if I could click a line/character in the terminal and it would take me to where in the capture it was sent.

I don’t see a way to do that from the Terminal, but if you are searching for a particular string you might like my ReSearch HLA. It uses regular expression matching to find strings in the output of other analyzers with the option of dumping the results in the Data Table where you can click to jump to the matching place in the capture view.

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Woops, sorry about that! I just edited my reply above and added the link to it.